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Nový iontový motor je desetkrát účinnější


[ 1 ] Vložil: Abraxis – 16.1.2006 2:54

Moc nechapu to s tim "neutralizovanim" (teda chapu JAK, ale ne PROC). Nemate nekdo k tomu vice detailu?

[ 2 ] Vložil: Jarda – 16.1.2006 8:58

Protoze kdyby se motor nezbavil elektronu 'zbylych' po ionizaci, tak se ta sonda bude nabijet zaporne a bude ty kladne nabite ionty zase pritahovat zpet.

[ 3 ] Vložil: Martin – [ WWW ] – 16.1.2006 9:01

Já předpokládám, že je to proto, aby celá sonda ve vesmíru zůstala elektricky neutrální a nepřitahovala tak nabité částice a také kdyby se nabila na příliš velké napětí celá kostra sondy, tak by motor nejspíš přestal fungovat, protože by kostra přitahovala odlétající částice a ovlivňovalo by to jistě i samotné urychlování iontů uvnitř motoru.

[ 4 ] Vložil: Martin – [ WWW ] – 16.1.2006 9:02

[2] Pěkně jsme se shodli. :)

[ 5 ] Vložil: Abraxis – 16.1.2006 9:32

No, ale vuci cemu chces merit ve vesmiru "elektrickou neutralitu"?

V tomto pripade je to celkem jasne (vuci tem vystrelenym casticim), ale zda to jde vubec nejak obecne...

[ 6 ] Vložil: p – 16.1.2006 10:22

MY nejsme americani, takze asi tezko budeme nedopoustet aby Cina byla na Matsu driv :)

[ 7 ] Vložil: Martin – [ WWW ] – 16.1.2006 14:45

[5] Elektrický náboj tělesa změříme tak, že do jeho okolí umístíme těleso se známým nábojem a změříme, jaká síla něj působí. To platí pro větší vzdálenost od složitě tvarovaného tělesa za předpokladu nevýznamnosti jiných možných zdrojů elektrického pole v prostoru. Těleso (sonda) bude neutrální tehdy, když na nabité těleso nebude působit žádnou silou.

[ 8 ] Vložil: Abraxis – 17.1.2006 21:09

2Martin: jo, to chapu, ale prave jde o to, jake teleso zvolime (Zeme muze mit uplne jiny naboj nez Mesic/Slunce...)...

[ 9 ] Vložil: Martin – [ WWW ] – 17.1.2006 21:37

[8] Elektricky neutrální těleso nebude silově působit (původem z elektrického pole) na ŽÁDNÉ elektricky nabité těleso. Ačkoliv Země, Měsíc i Slunce jsou celkově elektricky neutrální.

Ovšem taky je možné, že jsem nepochopil Tvůj dotaz.

[ 10 ] Vložil: Abraxis – 18.1.2006 21:47

Ne, pochopil jsi ho spravne. To ja pochopil tebe blbe - myslel jsem si (az doted), ze nic jako "neutralni naboj" neexistuje - holt jsem na to "aplikoval" teorii relativity a myslel jsem si, ze neutralni "naboj" je nulovy naboj vuci nejake "vstazene merici soustave".

[ 11 ] Vložil: Seeker – 19.1.2006 13:49

Nevim nevim, jestli chcete cestovat něčim co zrychluje 200 let na rychlost ostatních raketoplánů!?

[ 12 ] Vložil: Martin – [ WWW ] – 19.1.2006 21:16

Asi nechápu, jak jsi komentář myslel. Na oběžnou dráhu Země se jakákoliv loď musí vynést klasickými raketami, přičemž dosáhne přibližně stejné rychlosti jako raketoplán. Ale spíše jsi narážel na velmi nízkou sílu vyvolanou iontovými motory obecně. Zrovna v tom je tento motor dobrý. Vyšší specifický impuls znamená, že můžeme zařadit třeba i více motorů na jednu sondu a dosáhnout vyššího zrychlení. JIMO také nepočítalo s tím, že by někam letělo 200 let.

[ 13 ] Vložil: Prokop Hapala – 20.1.2006 10:32

U iontovych motoru je problem ze meritko specifickeho impulzu je ponekud zavadejici. Pro bezne palivo se hodi, protze hmotnost paliva je jednoznacne najvetsi cast hmotnosti celeho systemu.

Ale pri porovnavani s iontovym motorem by se melo take pocitat s hmotnosti samotneho motoru (uvazime li casove omezenou dobu pouziti). Pak by iontove motory vychazely podstatne hure. I kdyz jejich hmotnost se s vyvojem samozdrejme bude snizovat.

[ 14 ] Vložil: Martin – [ WWW ] – 20.1.2006 12:16

[13] Máš samozřejmě zcela pravdu. Jelikož se motor ve fázi vývoje, jeho hmotnost ani porovnání hmotnosti s běžnými iontovými motory jsem nenašel. Pro využití bude určitě zásadní.

Ještě doplním svou poznámku o více motorech. I kdybychom na sondu namontovali 100 motorů, nikdy nedosáhneme takového zrychlení, jako má motor sám o sobě, ale čím víc motorů dáme, tím více se mu přiblížíme. Z toho také vyplývá důležitost "lehkosti" iontového motoru.

[ 15 ] Vložil: Prokop Hapala – 20.1.2006 12:32

no a jeste je zajimave porovnat energetickou ucinost

(zatimco specificky impuls by se dal nazvat hybnostni ucinnos). Bohuzel tu plati nemilosrdne neprima umera mezi hybnostni ucinosti (extrem je hazeni kamenu) a energetickou (extrem je fotonovy motor).

Asi jde o to najit optimum podle toho jaky je aktualne pomer nakladnosti neseni energetickeho zdroje a "hybnostniho zdroje".

Samozdrejme se da do budoucna ocekavat v tomto smyslu podstatne levnejsi energie nez hybnost. Ale zatim (bez jadernych reaktoru/lehkych fotoclanku) to tak jenoznacne neni.

To je predpokladam taky duvod proc motor neni proste jen protonove a elektronove delo namirene stejnym smerem (max hybnostni ucinost), ale naopak se castice jeste brzdi srazkami a to i za cenu toho ze se ponekud dezorientuji jejich vektory hybnosti, zpusobi to zahrivani motoru a opotrebeni mrizky, a komplikaci celeho zarizeni.

//mozna je to vagni, ale casto mi pripada ze tohle neni v souvislosti s iontovym motorem moc zminovano

[ 16 ] Vložil: David – 2.1.2007 0:24

Jasne totalni pravda ale hosi nezapomeli ste ze se tu bavime o zrychleni zeme vesmir přece kdyz vezmu dnesni iontovi motor a vezmu aerodinamicnost tak prece cim "aerodinamictejsi tvar" tak tim vetsi zrychleni kdyz vezmu za 20-30 let dnesni sondu a to zase bude lepsi motor tak to same bude kdyz tu sondu z aerodinamicnime protoze pak ty rakety nevyplejtvaj tolik paliva na vzneseni "beru li i odpor vzduchu atd" tak nam zase nejakej ten litr kapne ne?

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